Deborah

There has been quite a few mentions of this film in the "disturbing" category, but I would like to discuss the deeper impact this film has. Let me give you some background about me first so you know where I'm coming from.

I'm 29, caucasian, married to a caucasian woman, have an 18-month-old beautiful bi-racial boy, live in a suburb of Chicago (close enough to be considered Chicago), work in a school district that is EXTREMELY diverse, and attend a Chrisitian church that is extremely diverse. I have never thought of myself as a racist and have always defended minorities when someone brings up race in a conversation against minorities.

That being said, this movie really made me question my beliefs on the whole race issue. When Derek Vinyard (Ed Norton) is going through one of his many speeches, I found myself buying into it a lot. When he kicked the Crip's teeth in on the curb, I felt he was justified in doing that. This scares the crap out of me.

Fortunately, the message of the movie is that ALL of the Neo-Nazi propoganda is complete bullschtick. The overall message is an extremely positive, while still depressing, one. The whole movie takes you on the evolutionary trip Derek goes through from the start of his manipulation by his Dad to his further manipulation by the leader of a hate column and Neo Nazi movement, from his prison sentence and eye-opening experience to his release and departure from the Neo Nazis that brainwashed him in the first place.

What I would like to discuss are imbedded in the speeches Derek gives.

One of the discussions could be on his speech he gave to NBC that the police force watched at the station many years later. His father, a fireman, was just gunned down while on the job and he is OBVIOUSLY extremely upset. The main bulk of his dialogue consists of blaming minorities for taking advantage of the system. For "dealing drugs while still collecting a welfare check." He opens the interview with "It's typical", and continues to rant after that.

Another could be the dinner conversation they had when the Jewish teacher came by as a guest. The main discussion was Rodney King and riots. Derek was making the point that riots don't occur because of poverty. He believed it was simply opportunism at it's worse. Any excuse to go loot a store. And then there was the discussion of Rodney King himself, which Derek had a lot of truth in talking about how Rodney himself was not a model citizen.

Another could be the speech he gave his "crew" right before they destroyed the grocery store the Vietnamese man owned. His main point was that the government is using funds to help these illegal immigrants to flourish in America when they aren't even citizens. That the immigration service (I'm not sure if this is the appropriate title) didn't even BOTHER to screen for criminal backgrounds on those coming into the country. Because of it, a LARGE number of those immigrants are in prison which is costing Americans more tax money. He makes a very bold and profound statement, "The Statue of Liberty says give us your sick, tired, and hungry. But I say that it's AMERICANS who are sick, tired, and hungry." He further rants by saying that, until we help our AMERICANS, we should close the book.

To Deborah

I don't live in america, but the case will probably be the same... "the government is using funds to help these illegal immigrants to flourish in America"

The population of immigrants has the highest percentage of employment. Some people will say "oh, look at these guys, they've barged into our country and stolen our jobs", well the truth is that they work vey hard at the jobs we just don't want to do. In History X, they trash the guys store for several reasons, one of which is the tax issue you highlighted, but remember that the money used on the jailed immigrants is similar to the money spent on the unemployed. In fact, did nortons character have a job in the film? I don't think he did, yet him and the rest trash the guys store (the vietnamese guy had a job). This action is going to use up police time, which takes up more of the tax payers money. The fact is that the population of immigrants, some illegal, are doing a great service to our countries, yet we only here of the crimes they commit. If you've seen bowling for colombine you'll know that the crimes that the black community commit are lingered on much more than any white criminal. Norton makes some good points, but totally discredits himself by his actions, which make him as bad as the people he hates...

Neo-Yahtzee

I think both of you would find the Ryan Gosling film the Believer of great interest, it is smarter, eschews hollywood sentimentality and posits a solution that is more thought provoking than anything I've ever heard in a movie

gina

i loved this movie because it shows that people can change for the better even if we were the worst in the begining. i think that the actor we really awsome and i give then credit.

Spike AKA kim

i loved this movie it changed a few of my friends lifes when they sat down and watched it the only thing i didnt like is the end when danny got shot. thank you for making this movie other then the end it was a exelent movie.